MY DIALOGUES WITH J. KRISHNAMURTI 1975 - 1986

1998

PROLOGUE

During my encounters with people many asked me to write my dialogues with Krishnamurti, even knowing I would be retrieving them only from my memory since only a few had been recorded. It was so that I started to think of writing at least some of my memories down. Nevertheless some other friends felt that it was unnecessary to write my memories since Krishnamurti had done such a beautiful work of exposition of life and truth for humankind with his own books, videos and audiotapes. I wrote my memories for myself out of love for Krishnamurti. They add nothing to the teaching of Krishnamurti. I hope that anyone who reads My Dialogues with Krishnamurti feels the need to read Krishnamurti himself. I have almost stopped reading and if I do it is only to read Krishnamurti’s journals and commentaries and his seventeen volumes (Kendall-Hunt, 1933-67) of collected works. The author wrote this book, by request of his friends, originally in the English language, in order to be more authentic when quoting Jiddu Krishnamurti in dialogue. The native language of the author is Spanish.

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THE LAST PUBLIC TALK The last public talk happened only two months before his death, in Madras India. The breeze played with his long white hair. He was ninety years old. There were many birds chirping and making many noises, as it usually happened during public talks given by Krishnamurti. Between the chirping of the birds his voice resounded loudly and very clearly: “Where are we going? Have you ever asked where are we going, no matter what the poor books say and no matter how sacred they are?” He asked himself if there is anything else in life beyond money making and impressing others. He asked whetter we could live in this world without becoming cynical. Is there a difference between the brain and the mind, between thought and the mind? He said that the brain can’t communicate with the Mind, but that the reverse is true. Krishnamurti compared the brain to the computer. The computer is the result of a program, but it can create similar programs. “What are you, Sirs?” -he askedHe said we are all trapped in the “brain machine”, which creates the programs of being Russian, American, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim and Jew, etc. He said that invention is not creation. I met with David Bohm in 1987 in Ojai, California. We discussed this matter. The genetic process which creates the form of the organism and the brain is within a simultaneous creation (holokinesis). Later the brain knows, invents and memorizes and based upon this memory it operates and predicts.

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This movement of memory is within creation. We discussed the relationship between “holokinesis” and “creation”. Originally, in writing mankind, “meditation” was the absolute silence in which there could be communication between mind and creation. 3/83 In our times “meditation” has become a bunch of “techniches” or “methods” invented by memory and knowledge with the alleged goal of liberating us from thought. Krishnamurti asked himself in this, his last public talk: “Is there a perception without measure, without comparison, without reward or punishment?” “Is there a meditation which has nothing to do with effort or will”? “This meditation is not self-deceit, it is not a program, it is not self-hypnosis”. “It is absolute silence, without the wish to accomplish anything” “If I described this meditation, my description would not be it” “It has an infinite space” “Sirs, is your brain at any point silent and peaceful?” “But not peaceful with drugs, alcohol or beliefs.” “Not peaceful as satisfied people are peaceful.” “That silence may contact creation right now, with the life which is now emerging from creation.” “The wish for that silence is another invention of the ‘brain-machine.” “This is too serious for you to play with this!” 3

“What is creation, from which the bird emerges, the bird the brain can’t invent?” “Creation is the most sacred. It is in absolute silence.” “If you made a mess of you own life, change it today, not tomorrow!” “If your life is not in order, it is not possible to enter the world of creation”. These were the last words Krishnamurti said in public.

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LOOKING FOR THE NORTH Political contradiction in Argentina was always high. It came to one of its highest points, though, by the end of August 1972. A group of leftist guerrilla-men and women were killed in jail by that time in Trelew-Argentina and I was horrified to hear that one of them had been a friend of my family. I started to get phone calls prompting me to take sides in the armed struggle: "If you are not for the left you are for the right,” a man's voice had told me on the phone before he hung-up while I was taking care of a recently born baby in Villada (Argentina) on August 23, 1972. The following day I went to Buenos Aires to get a Visa to the U.S.A. (1972). If man looses respect for life we are all at risk from each other. Man becomes his own executioner. Only after two years I got a temporary Visa to enter the USA. Every Argentinian was supicious then. I stopped over in Puerto Rico. There was a man there I wanted to meet: Enrique Biascoechea. I did meet him. He was dying. He had been a friend of Krishnamurti since age 9. He wrote a letter to Krishnamurti telling him I had left my two parents and my two baby sons, possessions and friends, profession, comfort and status to meet him. That was in June 1974. Enrique died in Nov 1974. I was working sixteen hs/day as a resident physician in Pennsylvania, and needed a dictionary to dictate my notes. Of the other eight hours of the day I spent four in the basement to study medicine in English to revalidate my license. I slept three or four hours a day and ate only once a day, having a coffee in the morning and another one at lunchtime, simply to wake myself up. Sometimes I wonder how my body could bear so much abuse! I got letters from Argentina: "Misery for my family and my friends kept disappearing". I had given up hope to meet Krishnamurti when I got a letter from Mrs. Zimbalist, dated January 5, 1975 in Ojai, California telling me I had a personal interview with Krishnamurti on March 23, at four P.M. at the Huntington Hotel in San Francisco, California. Mrs. Zimbalist vounteered her time for Krishnamurti as a devoted secretary. She is the widow of the late Sam Zimbalist who had produced the relevant film "Ben Hur". At four P.M. on March 23, 1975 sharp I knocked at Krishnamurti's door. Mrs. Zimbalist did everything to make me feel confortable. Krishnamurti came after five minutes. I stood up from the armchair to shake his hand. He looked smaller than I expected him to be. He wore an old blue jacket. He sat in front of me, nothing in between the two chairs. Mrs. Zimbalist left silently. We sat there looking at each other. I will never be able to describe that moment when Krishnamurti was looking at me. I felt at the same time all the love I had felt for my parents, my sons, my girlfriends, my friends (dead or alive). 5

There was a long silence. Krishnamurti said: Biascoechea says you are ready to work for the Foundation. I said: I may not be wise or free enough for that. Krishnamurti : You will. Ruben: What would the work imply? Krishnamurti : Publishing books, videos and tapes. Ruben: That implies managing money. Krishnamurti : Millions of dollars. Ruben: That horrifies me. I'm not ready for that. I thought I would have to travel with you, type your lectures from recorded tapes... Things like that... Krishnamurti : (Laughing) You can do more than that Dr... Ruben: My name is Ruben Ernesto Feldman Gonzalez. Krishnamurti : That's confusing, may I call you Dr. Gonzalez? Ruben: Of course. But my real name is anger. Krishnamurti : (Touching my left knee) Ah! I'm glad you don't wear a mask like so many that come to me pretending to be saints.

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Ruben: I'm far from that. I feel a complete repugnance for the so called political situation of Argentina, my country of birth and even for the way my profession is practiced. I'm a pediatric surgeon. Now I started to study psychiatry (July 1974) in Pennsylvania to see why the world has gone so crazy. Nevertheless I'm not impressed, the approach to treatment in psychiatry is conventional. Standardized. I'll leave psychiatry too. I don't know what I will do. Krishnamurti : Don't leave psychiatry. Change it. Ruben: I never thought you would give me concrete advice like that. It sounds absurd though. Changing psychiatry sounds like changing the color of the crickets in the world. Krishnamurti : You have to change psychiatry. Ruben: I wish I knew what you mean. Krishnamurti : You have to meet Dr. David Bohm in London. Let's go there soon. Ruben: I wish I could, perhaps if I get a loan. Krishnamurti : No! Don't ask for a loan. You'll meet him soon anyway. Ruben: I need to make many changes. I have no peace. Friends have disappeared in Argentina. Everything seems so chaotic and corrupt... Krishnamurti: (Smiling) You need excercise. (Krishnamurti touched my belly with the tip of his left index finger). Ruben: I work sixteen hours a day and then I have to sit to study for four hours a day before I go to sleep. All to renew my medical license in the USA.

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Krishnamurti: That's an excuse. Take care of yourself. You need excercise. You look like a bull. Ruben: Sometimes I feel that I need to share my understanding with people around the world. What do you say to that? Krishnamurti : You speak. A very long silence followed. I had expected him to tell me to "stay put" and spend the rest of my life in silent meditation. With very few words he was the perfect mirror for my own contradictions to emerge and be clearly seen. He insisted: “The foundation in Puerto Rico has no head. I hope

you will take it”. (He grabbed my left knee.)

Ruben: Krishnaji, when I was with Biascoechea everything seemed so easy. Now I see I don't have the peace of mind, the right skills nor the freedom (two sons and two parents to feed) to dedicate myself sensibly to such an important and difficult task. It is certainly no picnic. Krishnamurti : I hope you take it. Another long silence followed. Krishnamurti discussed several items regarding the Foundation, translations, people like Salvador Sendra, Vimala Thakar, personal and ideological struggles within the Foundations, etc. Ruben: I'm eager to meet Salvador and Vimala. But people from the Fourth Path are trying to mix what you say with what others have said and are quite willing to control the Foundations. Krishnamurti : That has been going on all the time and not only with them. The Fourth Path is a path of violence which reinforces the ego and the wish to control life and its course. Do not touch it. The first insight is to drop everything non-essential for the total liberation of mankind.

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Ruben: Now that you mention the non-essential... why did you allow the biography of yours written by Lutyens to be published ? It's gossipy and superficial, and it may not be right selling ‘At the Feet of the Master’ with your name on it Krishnamurti : Not my books. Ruben: And they are making a profit. Krishnamurti : It's not my business. Ruben: How would you recommend your books to be read, and in what order? Krishnamurti : Do not read them like a novel. Read slowly as if your life was in every word and every sentence. Start with the last one and then if there is an interest go backwards through the first one. Ruben: Should we read all your books? Krishnamurti : If you take a train in San Francisco to go to Los Angeles, would you get off in Santa Barbara? We both laughed. One had to laugh very often in the company of Krishnamurti. To day the order of the books would be: "Ending of Time" "The Awakening of Intelligence" "Commentaries on Living" "Journal" "Freedom from the Known,” etc. "Collected works" (1933-67) 17 volumes (Kendall-Hunt) I asked: Why don't you eat meat? He answered: “Pity”. 9

I expected a longer lecture but that was all he said. Again a long silence. The silence was very alive, the silence of two alert friends seeing together the same thing at the same time. He stood up and said: "Excuse me Dr.Gonzalez, I'll prepare some tea for you”. At the kitchen in the big suite he whispered something with Mrs. Zimbalist who was sitting there. He came back with a cup of tea and said, "tea of roses for you." I sipped it but didn't like it. I left it on the little table besides us. Ruben: Can we talk about meditation? Krishnamurti : Is there anything else? Ruben: Well, the very word “meditation” is used by gurus of all kinds to make money, sell silly books, drums, techniques, pillows, crystals, mantras and incense. Krishnamurti : I have been using the word for 50 years. I can't change it now. People will have to see I use the word with a different meaning. I do not use the word ‘meditation’ with its traditional meaning! Ruben: What about using the expression ‘Unitary

Perception’ instead?

Krishnamurti : You use it. (Ten year later, during his last talk in England [London 1985] Krishnamurti said he would not use the word ‘meditation’ anymore.) Krishnamurti : Why not live very simply? Call it meditation or Unitary Perception. Self-protection and self-aggrandizement through money- making and success have to end in order to live simply. 10

To live simply is to live intelligently, without an observer in observation. If you believe you have to go back to Argentina to be loyal to some concept of yours you are not simple. If you are angry you are not simple. If you are full of sorrow you can't love anyone. Can you be spontaneous and simply act with not too much planning? Ruben: You are not saying I have to remain alone and live in poverty and silence. Krishnamurti : Would that be simple? Would you be escaping from life? The consummation of truth is not to be successful or wealthy... but do you want complete truth? Look for success or money and you'll find frustration. Look for truth and you'll receive total peace of mind and joy. Will you be one of the few? Or will you continue being one of the many worshippers of money and success? After a long silence, he said: "Dr. Gonzalez, your tea must be cold already. Finish it!” I didn't have the courage to say no and I did finish it silently. He said: “Let's meet tomorrow at 8 A.M.” Krishnamurti went with me to the door, opened it for me and lovingly smiled saying: "Good bye." I said: What noun should be applied to what you teach: ‘message’ ‘gospel’ or what? Krishnamurti said: “Call it ‘the teachings’. Let's meet tomorrow at 8 A.M., right here.” I spent the rest of the afternoon by myself in my room, which I had rented at the same Hotel Krishnamurti was in. I felt like a Condor for the rest of the day. Like a huge bird in flight! I met Krishnamurti by chance in the lobby that evening. I walked with him for a while. 11

I saw a couple of very beautiful girls. I said: God, how beautiful they are. He said: "Only well fed." I said: Krishnaji, I felt like a Condor the whole afternoon. Uplifted. Full of peace and joy and love. I think it's because I spent some time with you. Krishnamurti said: “For how long do you want to be infected?”

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UNTIE THE OCEAN (Intimate dialogues with Krishnamurti) Remembered after the encounter-not recorded in audiotape. I met Krishnamurti on March 23, 1975 in San Francisco, California. I have written already about that. My last name reads Feldman Gonzalez but Krishnamurti called me only Dr. Gonzalez. MARCH 24,1975 (Huntington Hotel - San Francisco, California) Krishnamurti: Sorry I made you wait. I was doing some

Hatha Yoga.

Ruben: No problem. Thank you for receiving me again. I would like to discuss the fact that you are the instructor of the World (or the Second Coming). Krishnamuri:

You worry about the irrelevant.

Ruben: It is relevant for me, because if you are the Instructor of the World, then I want to be an apostle. Krishnamurti: There are no more apostles, Dr. Gonzalez. It is of critical urgency that human beings change radically. They have to detach themselves from the content of mankind's consciousness, they have to live without touching the stream of growing vulgarity and violence. Egocentric activity has to end, the desire for profit, power and prestige. One needs to learn to live psychologically alone, that is to be content without depending on anybody or anything. Ruben: That they detach themselves from the content of mankind's consciousness? Then, how does one live? Krishnamurti: You don't become comatose, you don't enter into a drug or alcohol induced trance, you don't live in a state of hypnosis, or asleep even while awake. You live in complete attention. Are you aware that observation is action? 13

Ruben: Fundamental action. Krishnamurti: Observation is action. To observe totally doesn't mean to be negligent nor socially indifferent. If you observe totally, each one of your actions changes in nature. You free yourself from the choking grip of traditional memory and you also start to think sanely and freely. So there is total observation and new thought and action. PAUSE (We spent a long time in silence) Ruben: Are you greater than Jesus? Krishnamurti:

Do you want me to say ‘yes’?

Ruben: Tell me what do you think. Krishnamurti: Mankind is not the same. In the last two thousand years there have been three wars every year in the world and there has been a consequent degradation of human beings. The son of humanity can not be the same. Ruben: You are talking of the Son of Man (with capital letters), aren't you? You are talking of the Greek ‘uios tou antropon’ (the son of man). Aren't you? Krishnamurti: The son of humanity is to-day the son of a degraded mankind. Then ... what do you do? Ruben: I listen to Krishnamurti. Krishnamurti: For how long? Ruben: Until I understand and radical change occurs.

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Krishnamurti: Be a light to yourself. Stop procrastination. Throw away the content of consciousness. There has to be pure consciousness, pure awareness, pure listening. Ruben: When I asked you whether I could speak publicly you said, "you speak." Krishnamurti: You speak. ‘That’ is not only for you. Ruben: Can you tell me more about talking to people about all this? Krishnamurti:

You talk and expect no-thing.

LONG PAUSE (In vital silence) (Krishnamurti had said ‘no-thing’ he had not said ‘nothing’.) Krishnamurti: It's time for lunch Dr. Gonzalez. MARCH 25,1975 (Hotel Huntington, San Francisco, California) Krishnamurti: Good morning Dr. Gonzalez. Ruben: Good morning. Krishnamurti: I guess you have some questions, right? Ruben: You told me two days ago that you'll never die in an aircraft. What is it that makes you feel protected? Krishnamurti: ‘That’.

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Ruben: OK. Please, tell me about ‘That’. Krishnamurti: You can see That in action, but you can't talk about it. LONG PAUSE (In complete silence) Ruben: You already know that some of my friends disappeared in Argentina. Sometimes I feel deep sorrow for Argentina and for the rest of the world. How come so much horror? Krishnamurti: You can be free of all conditioning and then you'll be free of sorrow . When you are not an Argentinian anymore you'll be able to do more for mankind and even for Argentina. I was born in India. I had an English passport. When India declared its independence from England I asked for an Indian passport. Since then I have great problems to get visas when I travel, around, but I'm not English nor Hindu. I'm a human being. Ruben: You are a very special human being. You are easy to love. Krishnamurti: I admit I'm different, but the transformation that has occurred in me can occur in any other human being. And Nobody needs Krishnamurti or Dr. Gonzalez for that radical transformation, which is so necessary, to occur. Ruben: Maybe not, but a serious dialogue helps. Krishnamurti: With no guru. Dialogue without gurus. Ruben: Could we say that you are being my guru without us wanting it and that I'm being your guru without it being my purpose? Krishnamurti: Then there is a serious dialogue. You and I are seeing together the same thing at the same time. The most repugnant thing is to prostrate yourself to another human being and adore him or her. LONG PAUSE 16

(In vibrant silence) Ruben: Someone told me you sometimes even faint out of sheer physical pain... What is that ? Krishnamurti: I call it "the process" but I dont understand it nor want to. I leave all the explanations about "the process,” healing,and clairvoyance to Drs. like yourself (laughing). Ruben: I'd like you to tell me how to heal. I mean healing in its pristine and complete sense. Krishnamurti: Again the Dr. speaking. (Long pause) I prepared tea for you the other day. You found it bitter and left it. I had to ask you to finish it. You still have predilections Dr. Gonzalez. Ruben: So, to heal (with capital letters) you need to have no predilections. Krishnamurti: No, no. It's necesary not to have predilections. Period. If you're content for something you're not content. LONG PAUSE Ruben: Would you summarize the teaching in only one sentence? Krishnamurti: Attempt without effort to live with death in futureless silence. Ruben: It sounds absurd. Krishnamurti: Some time ago, in 1972, I spent a full morning with That without leaving my bed. I was completely quiet, before doing my Hatha Yoga (only physical yoga, just to keep a flexible body)... that was like a flame in the center of immensity. And the center of immensity was my brain. Do you understand? Ruben: Yes. 17

LONG PAUSE Krishnamurti: Then, what are you waiting for? Ruben: What? Are you by any chance saying that That is ready for me right now? Krishnamurti: That's right. But you are too sad. What a waste! Then, what are you waiting for? Ruben: I want to understand that sentence: "Die in silence without future." I think it would be better to say ‘attempt without effort to live in peace in futureless silence’. Krishnamurti: No. Death is the end of all you are afraid to loose:your attachments, your memory, your disappeared friends, your prestige as a children's surgeon. All that is the content of your consciousness. Can you get rid of it right now, now that you're young and healthy and not wait for 50 years for it to crumble by itself? It's easy for me to die. Ruben: Saint Paul said: "I die every day". Krishnamurti: Paul said "I die every day" and Dr. Gonzalez repeats what Paul says and nothing at all happens. Ruben: You're more of a surgeon than I am. Krishnamurti: Dr. Gonzalez, your brain has been as it is for the last million years. For how long will it be like that? Will you go to bed tonight with that brain of yours as it always has been? Habit, sorrow, anger, etc.? Ruben: I wouldn't be here if I wanted to go to bed with this brain as it is. Nevertheless I know I shouldn't accept what you say just blindly. I have to experience it. Would you be able to facilitate the experience of That, which may transform my brain and my life? Krishnamurti: If I was so stupid as to facilitate it, then all I say would become a theory or a technique, like so many others. You have to do it yourself Dr. Gonzalez. Climb to the summit and look, or do you prefer to go to bed and beg me to describe the summit to you ? 18

Would you be satisfied with my description ? Then you have no substance, then you are a second- hand human being. PAUSE Ruben: How does mediocrity end? Krishnamurti: As you get rid of the contents of human consciousness, will you get rid of all word? Ruben: Without saying ‘Krishnamurti is talking to me’. Krishnamurti: Or he who listens is a ‘respectable Dr’ You simply listen totally in pure silence. Ruben: Nevertheless, even with no words, I'll be able to talk meaningfully from deep silence. Krishnamurti:

For the first time, quite sir. The word God is not God.

Ruben: Will it help to stop sex with my wife? (*) Krishnamurti: Dr. Gonzalez if you love, you love your wife, then you do what you will and there is beauty in what you do. Don't worry about sex, do it or don't. Now, let's be silent for a while because Mr. and Mrs. Lillifelt will be here soon. We will have to talk, because you know well Dr. Gonzalez, that I will not live for ever. Perhaps 10 years more and the chap will be gone. COMMENTS (*) The relationship with my wife ended three years later when she left our house, which I immediately got rid of. Ever since then I live in the desert without securing my future. _ The meeting followed the dialogue but I have already written about it. _ Krishnamurti died almost exactly ten years later. _ This part of the book was written in South California Desert, South of the Valley of Death. 19

FRAGMENTS OF THE CONFIDENTIAL CONVERSATION (1) Krishnamurti: Now, Dr. Gonzalez, I’d like to discuss with you (confidentially) the problem of being an apostle. Ruben: Oh, yes, I do understand. You don’t want Jiddu Krishnamurti to start the same process which started with Jesus Christ. Krishnamurti: Quite! Ruben: Now, you said a quarter of a million dollars is necessary to start a school in Latinoamerica. Krishnamurti: Yes, you don’t want it to start and die. You want it to live and last. Ruben: Well, in Latinoamerica, such a quantity is astronomical. A physician makes less than one thousand dollars a month, you can’t expect such a sum to be gathered in Latinoamerica. Krishnamurti: You don’t know. You simply move from fact to fact, telling your friends not to ever hold power, not to ever want fame, and not to ever create an organization that will kill the sacred. Ruben: They will have to give up the pride of being Hispanic, or Creole, or native American, they will have to feel one with all human beings. That, I foresee, will be a huge problem in Latinamerica and Spain. Krishnamurti: You tell them so. It’s their problem if they don’t listen. Ruben: But the school... Krishnamurti: Now, if I may say it: forget the school. Without men and women of integrity, honesty, who can live with great austerity, nothing is possible and mankind will disappear soon. Now, that’s that. What else do we have to discuss? (2) 20

Krishnamurti: Dr. Gonzalez, it will happen to you if you are serious. The light will burn within you with the logs of the past. Don’t look for it. It will just happen. Free energy will break the limits of space that your thought has invented and you’ll see immensity. Now, after that happens you have to do everything from that immensity. Do you understand? Ruben: Yes. Krishnamurti: Great! You can go now. (3) Krishnamurti: I’ll tell Achyut to discuss the school in Latinoamerica with you. See, after a long time of struggling with the inward and outward problems of the school in Rajghat I asked him to stop doing that work. It was destroying him! Ruben: How can that happen? Krishnamurti: (Gravely and quietly) He stopped approaching the petty with the immense. PAUSE Krishnamurti: Do you see, Dr Gonzalez, if you are petty, whatever you do will be petty, whether it is go__g to the moon or doing the most important thing, which is teaching. Ruben: What does Achyut do now? Krishnamurti: Who cares? He stopped being petty, that is what matters! (4) Ruben: Why do these dialogues have to be confidential? Krishnamurti: Because I’m talking to something within you where you don’t want to go, where nobody wants to go. 21

If you push people to go to that sacred place in themselves, they’ll turn against you. If you go to sleep tonight without going there, when you wake up tomorrow you’ll be where mankind has been for three million years. Ruben: What do you mean? Krishnamurti: Only 5% of your brain is active. If I told you the things that happen when the other 95% wakes up, you wouldn’t even believe me. You probably wouldn’t talk to me again. (5) Krishnamurti: I’ll die in ten years more. This chap will be gone, what will you do then? Ruben: I’ll talk about what I have discovered thru the day I can’t do it anymore. Krishnamurti: Quite. You speak and expect no-thing. (6) Ruben: You keep saying you don’t know anybody who has understood your teaching fully. Krishnamurti: If I told them that you understood, they would follow you and they would be lost. And you would become so tired that you’d shrink as a violet in a very short time. (7) Krishnamurti: Mr. Sendra is very cantankerous and Vimala told everybody I cured her, when I told her she shouldn’t. So stay away from them. Ruben: I can’t recognize Krishnamurti saying something like this. Krishnamurti: Good. But now comes the worst part, Dr. Gonzalez. PAUSE 22

Ruben: I’m listening. Krishnamurti: Good. Stay away from any organization. Organizations corrupt people, teachings, nature and other things. Ruben: What do you mean by other things. Krishnamurti: Ah! That. You have to find out! (8) Ruben: You say you have no ego. Haven’t you ever been angry at anyone? Krishnamurti: Never Sir. Ruben: That is so hard to believe. Krishnamurti: I know. PAUSE Krishnamurti: Dr. Gonzalez, all human beings can live without fear, sorrow, anger and envy. Relationship without conflict IS possible. Why do human beings settle for less? Why not living a life of excellence, dignity, silence, beauty, refinement, subtlety, cooperation and honesty?

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MIAMI 1977 I didn't see Krishnamurti in 1977. I was a professor of physicians at the University of Miami and also was getting training in Child Psychiatry. I was academically very busy. I also participated weekly in the Spanish speaking meetings of Krishnamurti Readers in Miami which had been started by Antonio Mendible and started a cycle of lectures about Krishnamurti at the Mailman Center Auditorium (in English) which was the first step towards the establishing of a group of Krishnamurti readers which also met weekly in Miami. I attended both meetings weekly. I decided I had to move to California if I wanted to participate in the public talks Krishnamurti held in Ojai yearly in April or May and if I wanted to be closer to the school (the Oak Grove School) which I hoped my two sons would attend. (They were still preschoolers in 1977.) Before I left Florida, Mr. Antonio Mendible arranged two thirty minutes radio interviews for me. The theme: "The Teachings of Krishnamurti". He also organized two TV interviews (published in the book “La Psicología del Siglo 21" in Spanish language). The first radio interview was on June 12, 1977 (CMQ-1220 Radio) city of Miami. From the taped record (in Spanish) I translate: Victor G. Neira: Who is Krishnamurti? Ruben: Krishnamurti brings a message without any precedent in the registered history of mankind. V.G.N: Why do you think this is a message without a precedent? Ruben: Let's take a few reasons why, within the limited time we have for dialogue. You may detect some elements of Krishnamurti's teaching in thinkers like Lao-Tse and Buddha or in the Christian Gospels themselves but you will not find the tremendous and meaningful totality so lightly and clearly spelled in contemporary English. It's easier to translate from contemporary English, than from ancient Hebrew or Greek. Krishnamurti’s language is also easier to understand for us to day. And now (1977) we can see Krishnamurti alive with his extraordinary energy, peace and intelligence (at age 82) with no millenary halo of legendary mysticism, let alone the lies that can be told about those who died centuries ago. One example is how Krishnamuirti views the opposites as created by our own thought (or thought created by the opposites). He says the observer is the observed. 24

He says that every truth that is expressed verbally will inevitably carry a partial lie. Krishnamurti insists we don't know how to listen to each other without the influence of the images we have of each other, compounded problem by the fact that there is one language for each person. We develop our own personal reality. There is not much exegesis you can do with Krishnamurti. He is too much to the point, quite concrete and you either see or not see what he says. V.G.N.: How does Krishnamurti teach spiritual progress? Ruben: There is no spiritual progress for Krishnamurti. The totality or integrative understanding Krishnamurti proposes is like the light in this cabin. It's here or it isn't. Light is here in our mind only when the product of memory (time) which is the self, with our own name, is not present in consciousness. The self has to understand it is useless most of the time (non-functional). This tranquil awareness (or total mind silence) is something that may happen at every instant of our life. V.G.N.: The tranquil awareness is like a conversion? Ruben: The way "conversion" is generally understood in a rather superficial way. Conversion is seen as the substitution of prior thoughts, ideas or affiliations. In tranquil awareness time becomes irrelevant. That means that memory, image, symbol and word may be necessary for only ten percent or less of our time in every day life. When memory is used for more than ten percent of the time we start to become psychiatric cases. V.G.N.:Would you call Krishnamurti's teaching "mystical,” "scientific" or "philosophical"? Ruben: The emphasis placed by Krishnamurti upon the perception or the absolute reality of facts as they are without the distortion of intellectual interpretation or emotional reaction (both memory responses) makes Krishnamurti's teaching transcend religion, science and philosophy as we know them. You cannot mystify Krishnamurti's teaching into something cryptic or esoteric that may become a tool of exploitation by an elite of "experts" or "priests". He makes it too clear and too often. V.G.N.: Can you summarize the goal of Krishnamurti's teaching?

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Ruben: In the last 3 years ( 1975-1977) I had long one to one conversations with him in California and also group encounters with psychiatrists and Krishnamurti in New York. Krishnamurti's goal is to free mankind totally from its past, but he says this is paradoxically an individual (not an individualistic or selfish) task. The task has to start with you and me. V.G.N.: How do you achieve that total freedom from our past? Ruben: There is no technique nor achievement. Techniques are nothing but a product of memory (the past). Our wishes are also a product of memory (of what we know). Krishnamurti says we have to enter the unknown without wishes or fears. Our techniques and our goals take us away from the reality of the unknown. V.G.N.: And what is the unknown? Ruben: It's the unpredictable and the ineffable. It is relationship with life, people and nature in a way we can't plan, control, manipulate or exploit. It is to be intensely aware of what is happening every instant. That is not a final mystical introversion, it is not a disillusionment with our scientific or economic cosmovisions (many times contradictory). It is simply a deep and real contact with everything. V.G.N.: Is it an ecstasy? Ruben: I would say it is the silence of not thinking when thought is not necessary. It is perceiving without the interference of memory. Both "ecstasy" and the "dark nights of the soul" are irrelevant. Ecstasy is a tranforming factor only while it is happening and "the night of the soul" is only the remembrance of transitory ecstasy and the longing for it. V.G.N.: Does Krishnamurti use any prayer or any method of meditation? Ruben: The use of mantras, prayers and meditation techniques (even when they have beautiful names or sounds or exotic authors and images which hypnotize us), the use of so called creative or "therapeutic" imagination.... are all the product of that memory which we have to drop when it stops being functional. Perception without future or past (timeless total observation and listening) is what Krishnamurti calls meditation but it is not a technique. 26

V.G.N.: So Krishnamurti talks about meditation. Ruben: Unfortunately yes. From the very first time I met Krishnamurti I asked him to drop the word "meditation" which is so loaded with meaning. He says he doesn't use the word in its traditional meaning and that he has used it for fifty years in spite of his impossible dream of creating a new language. I believe Krishnamurti uses a new language even within the old words. That's why reading Krishnamurti is an adventure because you sense the fresh meaning in the age-old words. Certainly Krishnamurti is not a guru who exploits (like so many gurus!) the naive credulity or the utter despair of their followers to make money. Krishnamurti's word "meditation" doesn't mean the violent destruction of our alienated and violent way of survival. It's simply "not to touch it" in our own way of life, and this is the foundation of the education at the schools recently founded in England and California. It's not even voluntary segregation in small groups like the Essenes of the year Zero. As a matter of fact I proposed this option last year to Krishnamurti during an international meeting of Psychiatrists at the Carnegie Institute of Endowment (New York) but Krishnamurti didn't like the idea at all. It's all on record. I think Krishnamurti's "meditation" is to heal and liberate the whole fabric of society starting with the liberation from all spiritual authorities and the spiritual healing of oneself. In Krishnamurti's English the words "whole" "holy" and "healthy" are etimologically connected, which Krishnamurti makes a point in emphasizing. In summary it would be an attempt of living intensely every minute without effort (with death) in futureless silence. But very few dare to investigate seriously into this. V.G.N: As a psychiatrist Dr.Ruben, would you comment on what Krishnamurti says about psychoanalysis? Ruben: Too many things are implied in psychoanalysis as to be able to discuss them in such a short time. In summary, though, you see the interplay of a powerful organization, authority, dependence and technique. Krishnamurti attempts to liberate man from all that. If two or more people are going to help each other at all in the psychological "arena" there should not be authority, dependence, organization nor technique. Those who want to help each other must discover together like true friends. Then you need compassion, a good sense of humor, tranquility, space, flexibility, good will, penetration and common sense. But common sense is not a sense and is not common. 27

V.G.N.: Like true friends. Ruben: Right. We have lots of comrades and lots of churchgoers but we don't have too many friends anymore. Look at written history: More than 5000 wars in 2000 years. The repetition of religious, racial, national or so called "political" genocide, mobilized by tyrants and demagogues with their own ideas of "motherland" or "religion,” most of them sustained by immense financial cryptocracies (hidden directors). You probably remember the Armenian genocide in the beginning of the 20th century, the Cathars and Albigenses in France (13th Century), the recent genocide of the Jews in the "civilized" Europe of the 1930's and 40's, the current "low intensity" genocide in Latin America and Asia, etc. The only prophylaxis to this repeated genocide (man against man and woman) is the liberation from all authority (except the merely administrative authority). Man has to be independent of all rigid idea or belief sustained by memory (tradition, etc.) Man has to be free from all organization which hampers the free contact of man with other men, ideas and nature as they truly are. Krishnamurti clarifies this in his latest books,videos and audiotapes: Box 1560 -Ojai, California 93023- USA V.G.N.: Is Krishnamurti teaching psychologically dangerous to anyone? Ruben: Krishnamurti's teaching is the best guarantee against psychological imbalance. V.G.N.: Are all Krishnamurti readers psychologically balanced? Ruben: The neurotic and the psychotic person will always be specially tempted to relieve their own suffering with the so called "transcendental experiences" or "integrative understanding". What happens is that "transcendence" or "integration" are persued through mystical constructions of thought. When you attempt to translate a construction of thought to a thinking process that is already disturbed (neurotic, psychotic, depressed, agitated, obsessed, addicted, retarded, abused, inattentive, uneducated, etc.), all false pre-existent ideas may be reinforced. The psycho-historic study of some mystics show the association of both creative and pathologic elements in their personalities. I have met Krishnamurti and I have not seen anything pathologic in him. On the contrary, you feel his joyful-energy within yourself in his presence, you feel his balance, his humor, his wit, his extraordinary creativity. What Krishnamurti says is that we need a very subtle, fine and adequate perception of reality to heal and integrate ourselves. Only after that we will transcend first what is sick in us and even what is healthy in us.

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V.G.N.: What is transcendence for a psychiatrist and what is it for Krishnamurti? Ruben: I have dedicated a lot of time to this matter. Essentially Krishnamurti offers the first holistic-integrative approach to the problem of perception of reality and its transcendence. Only through the pure and total perception of reality you can transcend it. That is silence in Krishnamurti's words. Prior interpretations of transcendence, including the psychiatric ones, appear to be quite fragmentary, within the known process of memory-idea-image-reaction and word. Philis Greenacre talks about "infantile amazement" as the foundation of the wish for transcendence. Winnicott talks about a "Transitional object". Either God or a piece of cloth are psychological constructs to create a transition from dependence on mom to individual independence (if any). The "transitional object" is the refuge or comfort needed by the child (or the childish person) since the comfort given by mom (or true caretaker) starts to get reduced in quality (proximity) or time (quantity). The "transcendental search" is for Winnicott a transitional phenomena of an adult who is looking for relief from a reality which is seen as "intolerable". Freud himself talked about "oceanic feeling or experience" and the alcoholic (or "trancendental") need to go back to amniotic tranquility. Oremland talks about the "passage from the diadic to the monadic system of the ego". Jung is well known and Erich Neumann links transcendence to the psychological development in stages. Krishnamurti talked about the progressive and the transcendent ego in 1928 but he dropped the words very soon, since people around him started to talk almost like Erich Neumann. Transcendence for Neumann can be:Theistic, atheistic, pantheistic, materialistic, idealistic, introverted and extroverted. This prolific classificatory activity has been inherited from the reductionistic and fragmentary thinking, in itself an expression of the Helmholtz school of thought. Neumann says there is a different way to trancend in each stage of life. The 1st. negates the world, it is non-creative and represents an attempt to return to the primordial comfort of the material womb. The 2nd is born from conflict, is somewhat creative and represents the wish to transform the world. The 3rd is the peace and unity with the world without effort or conflict. By living in the world, the man who is transformed (or has trancended) is already transforming the world by "infecting it" with his own peace and balance. This is different from Dr. Maurice Bucke's idea who wrote a book in 1923: "Cosmic Consciousness" stating that the transcendence (metanoia) or transcendence "beyond thought" can be attained only after total psychological maturity,” never before age 30 to 35.

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Deikman speaks of "De- automatization" this is a slower and less efficient processing of neurological stimuli which allows the discovery of new experiences (perhaps facts forgotten by the individual or the species a long time ago). In my view Krishnamurti doesn't see this process as occurring at all when the mind discovers the futility of processing stimuli, that is "when the observer is the observed". V.G.N.: Is there a fusion of the observer with that which is being observed? Ruben: Well Mr. Neira, the problem of the observer is precisely the crucial one for philosophy (epistemology), religion and science to day. Jean Piaget revolutionized psychology when he said that mind doesn't copy reality but it organizes and transforms it. V.G.N.: So mind organizes reality the way it wants? Ruben: Well, approximately so. Three individuals look at a cloud and each one will see something different in the same cloud. The test of Rorschach provides an ambiguous configuration in each picture shown to the patient and he reveals, by interpreting the picture "the organizational patterns" of his own mind. V.G.N.: Could you make this easy for Miami- radio? Ruben: I'll try my best. Piaget thinks math is an important subject to study the development of knowledge because math is the totality of what is possible in the creation of the observer or subject. If God made man it's OK but all man knows about God is the God man made in his own thought. Math is a reality made by man. Rather than discovering God or the world, man is used (or conditioned) to invent the world. There is also a linguistic problem (and language is also man-made): when we say "I think" we believe that "I" creates thought. In reality it is the process of thought by the brain activity the process which creates the "I". V.G.N.: Would you say more about this? Ruben: It just takes effortless attention to be aware that our thought process is constant and automatic. But if we remain constant in being effortlessly attentive we will soon see that thought loses its relevance in consciousness. 30

A silent mind can be completely peaceful and that mind can think much better when thinking is necessary. It is important to know what we are thinking but perhaps more important is to be aware of how we think. What we think depends on conditioning: Climate, education, economics, beliefs, etc. How we think is the process of thought and this process is the same in every human being. Metanoia means "go beyond thought" in Greek and the Christians used this word to mean "a complete transformation of mind". The problem is that the one who wants to go beyond thinking, (whose name is "I"), is only a product or a projection of thinking itself. That's why it's so important to understand the process of thinking and image making and not only the content of thought. V.G.N.: Are you implying that science will never achieve truth? Ruben: Thought will always be incomplete. That in itself is a true insight and truth will make us free. We may be able to say what truth is not but it will be impossible to define truth itself. The dictionary will not help you to find truth. V.G.N.: Is God merely a product of thought? Ruben: If God is more than the product of thought then thought will not help us to discover it or him or her. Do you see what language does? V.G.N.: But at least rational thought is useful ten percent of the time. Ruben: Rational thinking is very important for mankind. But even rational thinking (which is rare) is not enough for man to solve his problems. We have to discover when thought is useless, or non-functional or even harmful. The whole structure of society is the product of our memory. But memory and thought will not solve the problems created by memory and thought. Governments will not stop producing and selling weapons merely by the use of rational thought. We need a total transformation of our perception as well. But there I see the red light announcing the end of time.

BROCKWOOD PARK 31

(June 1978) In April 1976 I met Krishnamurti (and Mrs. Zimbalist) at the international meeting he had with the psychiatrist at the Carnegie Institute of Endowment in New York. It had been organized by Dr. David Schainberg from New York. The meetings were tape recorded, so I will not discuss them. When the last meeting ended I approached Krishnamurti as usual to shake his hand and make a few comments. This time Krishnamurti looked tired and only said a few words: "Did any body listen?" Krishnamurti used to make intentional pauses between words. "Please see Dr.Bohm in England and then see me in Brockwood, as soon as you can." I just said good bye. Krishnamurti was sweating and there was no joy on his face. It wasn't until June 18, 1978 that I flew from Miami to Heathrow Airport in London. I took a bus to Woking and from there a train to Petersfield. Mrs. Zimbalist was waiting for me at the station in Petersfield. I was dressed as informally as I could and I asked her why we were driving a Mercedes. She said it was a good car. I had the belief then that the teacher of the world should dress informally and even poorly and perhaps also live uncomfortably. Looking backwards I try to understand my lack of sensitivity and I can only partially justify it by telling myself I was so eager to see the truth in Krishnamurti that I was doing at the same time everything possible to find out what he was hiding: either some esoteric teaching for the chosen few or some ugly business for some corporation. But there was nothing of one or the other. Krishnamurti was talking about the only thing that matters and he was order, beauty, love and truth.

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Only it was too hard to believe! I shared meals with Krishnamurti for ten days in a row. I sat with him, Dr. Bohm and his wife, Mrs. Zimbalist, Mrs. Simmons and Mr. Narayan who was at that time the Principal of the Rishi Valley School in India. On June 22nd and 23rd three cameras were set up to film the dialogues between Krishnamurti, Bohm, Narayan and Dr. Rahula, a Buddhist from Sri Lanka: Krishnamurti invited me to participate and I (as usual) refused. During lunch, the following day I asked Krishnamurti what he thought of the Buddhist specialist. Krishnamurti said: “You know there are many library mouses who can only repeat what they read, they are unable to live what they read. During the whole conversation there was not one moment of insight. He did nothing but compare the new (what Krishnamurti says) with the old (Budhism). He compares everything with Buddha, he doesn't want to be a Buddha.” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ During one of those meals Narayan asked Krishnamurti to talk about reincarnation. Krishnamurti only said this: "What is it that continues?" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ After lunch I approached Krishnamurti who was walking alone with his dog Whisper under the trees. I told Krishnamurti I had been watching my sexual desire very closely the night before. I had been given a room where I slept by myself. I asked: Is there anything one can do not to repress the desire nor to free it in conduct? 33

Krishnamurti said: "Be a light to yourself " Talking to Whisper (the dog) he said: "Let's go Che-che" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By that time one of the male students (all between fourteen and twenty two years old) had gone to the room of one of the girls. There was an ongoing administrative process to expel them both from the school. Krishnamurti decided he would discuss sex with the students but he didn't want the visiting parents who were staying in Brockwood that summer to participate. I started to leave but Krishnamurti called me: you have to be present - he saidThe students were angry during that meeting. One of them said to Krishnamurti: You speak of freedom so much, why do you restrict sexual freedom in the school? Krishnamurti answered: “This school is like a home for you. Why wouldn't you take care of the school as you would take care of your home ? You know we are under the laws of England and that we have to respect the laws; otherwise they are going to close the school.” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I met Krishnamurti soon after a series of long conversations with David Bohm regarding his concept of Holokinesis or holomovement. Krishnamurti: Did you talk to Bohm?

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Ruben: Yes. The place was small but the conversation was big. Dr. Bohm was patient enough to listen to all I had to say. He said my approach to perception could be very helpful for those who have the mind to listen. I'm trying to polish the language as much as I can. David believes what I say is a breakthrough in Psychology. Krishnamurti: That's good, but words have to be simple. Sometimes I have felt like creating a new language. But one has to speak to those who listen and one has to use the words we have. Ruben: Dr. Bohm agreed with me that whoever listens in unitary perception (holokinetic listening if you want) will have a changed molecular structure of the brain, of each neuron. Krishnamurti:

Quite, quite.

Ruben: That brain will make contact in a conscious way with what you call ‘the ground’ or undivided reality. Krishnamurti:

Perhaps, yes. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There was an art show later. I discussed ‘Discipline’ in Brockwood Park with Mathew Lazarus. When I met Krishnamurti. I told him: Ruben: I was talking about "discipline" with one of the students. He said that western students define discipline in Brockwood as "strict" but Eastern students consider it "loose". Krishnamurti: Discipline is the skill to learn. You either have it or you don't. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Ruben: Krishnaji, as I told you three years ago I don't see much meaning in working as a physician in a society that is getting more and more corrupt by the minute. You told me in 1975 that I shouldn't quit psychiatry (as I quit Pediatric Surgery) and that I should change Psychiatry. What I see is that it is difficult for people to understand the basics of the new psychology and the new physics and even if they do understand nothing seems to happen... society continues to be based upon war... Krishnamurti: Why do you separate God and work? Why can't you be joyful, peaceful, honest and creative in your work?

THAT CAME TO ME (Frankfurt - June 1978) After I left Brockwood Park I visited the Max Planck Institute of Brain Research in Koln, Germany.

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While I was waiting for my plane at the Frankfurt Airport for a visit to Argentina, I had the experience of enlightenment. It lasted for only six or seven minutes but it changed my life as nothing before had. I had just met Krishnamurti again and Dr.Bohm for the first time but during the experience itself I had no cause-effect relationship established in my mind. The same experience with different overtones occurred at least five times between June 1978 and March 1980. It was after these experiences that I started to lecture to the public and participate in Group Encounters (1978 until to day) on every continent except Africa. I simply have no contacts in Africa. I have tried to describe the experience of That to my friends. After many attempts I have to start by saying that there are no words for it. Every time it happened, either for a few minutes in Frankfurt (1978) or for the longest period of a full week after June 21st 1986 in El Centro, in the South California Desert, I completely lost appetite and sleep, as well as the concept of time. Every time That came I felt overstimulated, overenergetic and joyful but immensely calm, with a sense that everything was in order within me. Everything was very clear in my mind in those blessed moments. After That came I know that mankind shares only one consciousness, but not as an idea, a belief, a whim or a wish. Now I simply know that mankind is one. Now I spend every cent I can save to discuss the Teaching with anyone who invites me from anywhere in the world.

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OJAI - CALIFORNIA (March 30, 1980) -There may be one day of error in this dateRuben: Last year we couldn't talk too much. Mary (Zimbalist) takes good care of you. She didn't let me see you. Simple as that (laughing). Krishnamurti: I asked her to live longer than I will, so she helps me to take care of ‘the horse’. They claim that I take care of my body as a cavalry officer takes care of his horse. Maria is a good officer. Ruben: I guess that without her it would be difficult to be even one minute by yourself, with so many people wanting to talk to you. People love you. Krishnamurti: No, very few want to discuss anything serious. They fall in love with me and want to be close, that's all. It's not that they love. Ruben:

I'm glad to know Dr. David Bohm will talk with you and that the talks will be recorded. Please tell him I'd like to see him again.

Krishnamurti: Yes, we will record our talks with Dr. Bohm. I didn't know what we would do in this two months in California this time, but it seems it will happen. Ruben: I hope you talk about the problem of time. It was when I had my first contact with That, at the Frankfurt Airport in 1978, that I understood what is irrelevant time. It was the last thing I understood, the difference between relevant and irrelevant time. I think if somebody understands that difference right away That has to barge in. Krishnamurti: Quite, Dr. Gonzalez. Ruben: It's a pity that that ‘contact’ is not a voluntary thing, because I would not like to live in any other way anymore. It's like healing or group - mind. They happen without one knowing how or why: It's perhaps semi-deliberate...

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Krishnamurti: Don't get trapped in it when it happens. Ruben: No, but it's fascinating (PAUSE) Krishnamurti: psychology.

It would be good to have you in our dialogue with Dr. Bohm, somebody who knows about the brain and intellectual

Ruben: Excuse me, but I'm not ready to participate in that dialogue. I'm going through a family crisis, my sons are in Argentina and its better not to talk about that. You might remember that last year, after having a walk with them, you told me : "Don't ask them what happened" . That was in April 1979. Their mother left our house abruptly in August 79. Is all this irrelevant time? Krishnamurti: Yes. But you said you have tried the Ocean water. Don't avoid exposure Dr. Gonzalez. You already have something to say. I hope you'll participate and contribute. Ruben: I'm very sorry I can't do it right now. It's not that I don't want it or that I'm afraid. I simply can't. I think I'm going through a small night of the soul, as they used to say. Krishnamurti: I hope you can. Speak and expect no-thing. Don't expect to preserve your respectable merits. Untie the ocean. The Ocean will flood Dr. Gonzalez. There will be nothing left of him. (PAUSE) Ruben: I'm thinking of working only four hours a day and live in the desert or by the sea, far from big cities. I made contacts in San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara (with Dr. Ben whom you know so well), Ventura, Hawaii, etc. I want to live simply and with austerity. In November,1979 I refused an offer by Dr. Karl Pribram at Stanford University in California, to work with him in brain research. 40

Krishnamurti:

You love and you do what you will. But austerity may not be simple.

Ruben: I got rid of everything I had. Krishnamurti: Be careful that austerity be simple. Ruben: What do you mean? Krishnamurti: You may live in a mansion and spend the night in a grand Hotel, as long as your future is not in your memory. He who dies being rich has lived in vain. Ruben: I agree. The doubts I have refer to the security of my two sons. I only don't want to have more children.I'm a pediatric surgeon and a pediatric neurologist - psychiatrist, but I don't know what to tell my children. The world is not fit for children. Krishnamurti: Be responsible with the commitments you have taken upon yourself, but don't worry. Ruben: I think my first commitment is to share the treasure of That when one truly lives in it. I'm spending everything I can spare traveling around the world and talking from That. That has come several times. Krishnamurti: Yes, you look different. Since you come from Latin America, why not concentrate on Latin America? Tickets and hotels are more and more expensive every day and you know how difficult it is to get a visa sometimes. Nobody will pay your expenses from Latin America. Those who could pay will not listen and those who could listen will not pay. Besides that, you need to take care of your health, you need exercise, Dr. Gonzalez. It's a problem to be in a hospital, all plans altered. That's what happened to me in 1977 when they operated upon my prostate. It was a chance to die and never come back, but there is a lot to do yet. You think it's generous to forget one's health, right? Ruben: (Laughing). I think it's the problem of almost every physician, the idea that you have to take care of people's health and forget oneself. I was lucky to be born in a vegetarian home, that I never drunk (alcohol) or used drugs or tobacco. Krishnamurti: Beware of your generosity Dr. Gonzalez. the end of the body shouldn't be precipitated by suicide nor the generosity of forgetting one's own body. 41

What do you do when you talk with people in Latinamerica? Have you ever tried to ask a question in a group for nobody to answer? See what happens. Ruben: I speak in Universities with professors and students. When riots and strikes start (which happens quite often due to the situation of oppression and plunder of which Latinamerica is victim) then I rent a hotel lecture-room, place an ad in a local paper (all quite expensive) and I invite the whole town, as I have done repeatedly in Caracas, Santiago, Buenos Aires, Rosario, several towns in Mexico and Lima. In Costa Rica there were no problems at the University (San Jose). Perhaps that's because Costa Rica has no Army. I speak of time and its relationship to consciousness, to perception. I speak of "Unitary Perception". Local gurus don't like me to talk because that's the end of their spiritual business. I also understand that when you told me "you talk" it's implicit I'm the only one responsible for what I say. I do not represent you nor interpret your teaching. Krishnamurti: Quite. Don't forget that in silence flowers an intuitive understanding. Do you talk of living orderly and peacefully and honestly ? That's not so difficult and that's the beginning. It's important to emphasize a radical change in daily life. Partial reforms (political, economic, ideologic) are not enough. Ruben: But they are urgently needed in Latinamerica, otherwise a lot of blood will be spilled. Krishnamurti: Yes, but without a radical psychological transformation a partial reform will only procrastinate the bloodspill. (PAUSE) Krishnamurti: If wars don't stop today, there will be war tomorrow. (PAUSE) Krishnamurti: Have you been flattered or invalidated? Ruben: More flattered than invalidated. Both may be the same. Krishnamurti: They are both rubbish, don't you see? They have done it with me, all my life. To adore or to mock is easier than listening. 42

You know. Ruben: I see it clearly. But change seems to be difficult. Krishnamurti: Do you know that you can help those students to change? Ruben: I hope so... but... that contradicts... Krishnamurti: Give them all your compassion and all your intelligence and even the last minute of your time and energy, but learn to rest in silence. You work too much. Listen well to each one of them. In intelligence and compassion you are a little sun. You'll give light and warmth... and some will praise you, or will mock you from the shadows. Some others will sit in the sun . (LONG PAUSE) Ruben: Do you think I should speak without using my name (anonymously). Krishnamurti: Dr. Gonzalez you have four names, don't confuse me even more with your anonymity. Do not avoid exposure. Don't be afraid of losing anything. There's nothing to lose. You told me you're responsible for what you say, anonymous or not! Ruben: What do I do with healing? Krishnamurti: Healing the body is of secondary importance. Do what you will. But don't do it because someone wants it. Ruben: What do you do with the aura? Krishnamurti: Nothing. We have discussed this matter the first time we met. If you get trapped in something marvellous you'll not allow for the next marvellous thing to happen. 43

Let the aura alone. Let kundalini alone. "That" cleanses everything. You don't need to worry. Ruben: Sometimes you see something unbearable in someone you love. What do you do? Krishnamurti: Do you have predilections? Or will you look for some reason for it? It seems unbearable to love someone who will not get interested in That. There is a brother I would like to get interested... he resists ... but ... that's that. Ruben: The saddest thing for me is to see what human beings could be but are not. I would even stop watching the news, but it's hard. (LONG PAUSE) Krishnamurti: I watch the news sometimes, or else someone else summarizes it for me. The spiritual state of mankind is deplorable. Don't you see how urgently necessary your own transformation is, Dr. Gonzalez? All children should travel around the world. Then they could cry for all mankind and they would stop thinking as Argentinians, Hindis, Russians, American, Japanese, etc. Ruben: Nothing seems to be enough to understand something so simple. Krishnamurti: Your own total psychological transformation is enough. It's enough to get rid of mankind's consciousness. It's necessary to do so and that is the pure silence and the pure peace of the brain. But that can't be left for tomorrow, if one is serious. Ruben: Silence without name. Krishnamurti: It's like a house which doesn't have a place for silence... it will be a house with a lot of activity, plenty of noise, but there That will not enter. There has to be a room in each house where the only thing you can do there is to be silent and nothing else. That room will be the flame of the home. 44

Ruben: Then each home would be like a temple... Krishnamurti:

Each home would be a home without sorrow, that is a good home. (LONG PAUSE)

Krishnamurti: Well Dr. Gonzalez, it's time to go now. I'm sorry. Ruben: Krishnaji, before we go... I hope you give me the names of those you think have understood you best, even when not absolutely well. I'd like to talk with all of them. Krishnamurti: They are a few, so find them and meet them. Untie the ocean together. Ruben: Thank you for all, my friend. LAST COMMENT: After I met Krishnamurti in San Francisco (March,1975) I participated in the two international meeting of psychiatrists (April,1975 and April, 1976) at the Carnegie Institute of Endowment - New York, invited both by Krishnamurti and the organizer Dr. David Shainberg. In June 1978 I spent ten days in Brockwood Park and had the privilege of having lunch daily with Krishnamurti, Dr. Bohm, Mrs. Simmons, Mrs. Zimbalist, Mr. Narayan, Dr. Schlog and for a few days with the Buddhist Rahula of Sri Lanka (who video-taped some talks with both Dr. Bohm and Krishnamurti). I had the chance to interview staff and students for a Buenos Aires monthly magazine. Right after that (June, 1978) I started "University tours" through Latinamerican Universities (two months/yr) twenty years later I've had 36 of those tours (end of 1997). I plan the 37th Interamerican Tour of Dialogues about Unitary Perception for February and March 1998. I present Unitary Perception, the main "concept" (or "experience") of Holokinetic Psychology (born in the New York meeting of 1976 with Krishnamurti). Unitary Perception is the most important fact of the human mind. 45

I wrote three books in Spanish since then: "El Nuevo Paradigma en Psicologia" (Editorial Paidos, Buenos Aires, Argentina. 1982 and 1985) "La Psicologia del Siglo XXI".- (México - PCH, S.A.- 1994) "La Percepcion Unitaria".- (Mexico- Orion, 1989 & PCH,S.A -1994). After 1980 I saw Krishnamurti yearly in Ojai, California, but we never needed to talk again. Communion was well above the level of words, something that leaves no room for pretense. In 1983 I took my two sons with me (after I could get them back from Argentina) to discuss with Krishnamurti the problem of the word “God”. This dialogue was published profusely in Argentina under the title "Krishnamurti and my sons" and was inserted in my book "Unitary Perception" (Spanish - Mexico 1989). In 1981 we met shortly after my return from Hawaii. Krishnamurti died in February 17, 1986. In May 1986 I was invited to found and direct a health program for Children and Adolescents similar to the Model one I directed for Kings County (1978-1984), this time in Imperial County near San Diego where I directed the program without being an employee. This book was written in the town of El Centro, the center of the south California desert where I lived in 1991. After that I moved to Alaska (1993-1998). I needed the immensity and silence of Alaska.

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OJAI - CALIFORNIA (May 1983) Krishnamurti had public talks in Ojai, rather late in the spring of 1983. I was with my two sons: Sebastian age nine and Demian age eight. We couldn't get a motel in Ojai. They were all full. We spent the nights at the Holiday Inn in Ventura right besides the Pacific Ocean. My sons were happy. We had the sea and had Ojai only thirty minutes away by car. It is claimed that "Ojai" means "The Nest of God" in the local American-Indian tongue. On the morning of Saturday May 14, 1983 we arrived at the Oak Grove School in Ojai (Founded by Krishnamurti in 1974) at about 9:30 A.M. We parked the car and went for a slow walk under a sunny light-blue sky among the oak-trees. There was a delightful breeze between the blue mountains and the ocean. There were already more than a thousand people for the lecture that would start two hours later. I met many friends from different parts of the world. We were elated by our mutual company and by the expectation of listening to Krishnamurti in person again. The blend of nature, friendship and the sacred is beauty itself. And that day we were deep into the glorious light of beauty and the rare presence of love. Krishnamurti talked for an hour or so about the deplorable spiritual state of mankind. Three thousand people listened in silence. It was only Krishnamurti's voice and the breeze among the Oak-trees. Hundreds of birds were chirping. 47

He said we have to be a light to ourselves because “there is no one to go to.” Social and individual corruption grows. He said it's perfectly possible to relate without a shadow of conflict. At the end he shook hands with me and my two sons. “It's good to see you for a moment,” he said. Demian said: "Krishnamurti has cold hands, Dad". I said: Krishnamurti is eighty eight years old and he was talking for more than an hour under the trees in the breeze. It was during that weekend that we met at Arya Vihara in Ojai. There was a circle of chairs with at least 10 people sitting with Krishnamurti. It was 3 or 4 P.M. and it was easy to lose track of time in that kind of atmosphere after a cup of tea. After Krishnamurti joined us we remained in silence. One had to absorb his presence before any action was possible. At one point he asked: "Am I a freak ?" I said: You may not be a freak but possibly the genetic pool you come from makes you definitely more able to be free from the influence of human memory (both individual and philogenetic). That has made you more able to be in total contact with reality, while we are at best only partially in contact with it. Krishnamurti said something close to the following: "We may have genetic differences but we are all able to 'touch' the ground or the totality of the mind, and that ground is the most important thing for human life". I said: The ground being the cosmic mind or the holokinetic source of life...

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Krishnamurti said: "The ground being complete silence of the mind." (He emphasized the word “complete”) "Then we can talk." He finished. I said: Is that something external that comes to us (or to Krishnamurti) in certain specific circumstances? Krishnamurti said: "It may come now when two or more people meet to discuss seriously, which means with no wish for money or success and letting all the masks that protect us drop off." "Water will not know what water is. We can only discuss what water is not. You may explain water well but you have to swim in the sea as well." I said: We are in California. If you had to only use the words from the Bible how would you tell me what you just said to me? Krishnamurti said: "It's revelation. Something that happens every time I speak. But now, since that happens, I prefer to use my own words which are less loaded with distortions". I said: Tell us more about that. Krishnamurti said: "It's too Big for words". A long silence followed. I finally asked: What will we do, the ones that have tasted a few drops of that water? Krishnamurti said: "Those few will have to shout from the housetops before it's too late for mankind." I told him that some people were angry at him for the way he had said some things. Many seemed unable to forgive Krishnamurti for what he had said in Saanen in 1980: "God is disorder and if man is God's creation, God has to be horrible, a monstruous entity. God must be disorder since we live in disorder. If he made us like He is and we are killing each other, then He must be monstruous." Krishnamurti said: "What God are we talking about? Is it the God that man made? Those that get angry want to substitute the experience of God for the man-made word 'God'. It's not so easy. That word is disorder, not the experience. Where the word is, experience is not. Where experience is, there may or may not be the word."

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My sons had been having a nap under the oak trees. We went to Ventura and had a long walk on the beach. I was very silent that day still impressed by the immessurable spirit of that great teacher of mankind. My sons felt the sacred nature of that quietness and they were also quite silent without any prompting on my side. After dinner we stood in front of the sea, under the stars, listening (in sheer darkness) to the exciting thunder of the innumerable rolling stones, pushed by the waves to the beach. I told my sons: "Those stones will be sand in three or four thousand years". When it got very chilly, then we went back to the Hotel. Before entering the Hotel, Demian broke the silence of communion: "Daddy, is it possible to forget something so beautiful like a night like this when one grows up?" It was a valid question since he had lived with his mother in Argentina for three years after our divorce in 1979 and he had forgotten English completely and even his own name. I told Demian: You are already eight years old. From now on you'll forget no-thing either good or bad. But it is possible to go beyond memory, into "metanoia" or like I say into “Unitary Perception.” In Unitary Perception it's possible to go back to memory remembering everything we call 'good' and everything we call 'bad' whenever it's necessary or just when you want it... FIVE YEARS IN OJAI (1981 to 1985) I saw Krishnamurti many times in the last five years of his life. I can't remembert the dates well except that my meetings with him happened during the two or three weeks the public talks in Ojai were being held.

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It was clear for me that I was not going to depend on Krishnamurti for anything, but I still was intent in discovering "the complete silence of the mind." Whenever me met in Ojai it was with David Bohm and a small group of friends, or occassionally by chance close to Arya Vyhar (his residence) or at the Oak Grove School. One day I told him the eternal That, the immense joyful energy... had "touched" me. I also told him that very soon it left me. The meaning of That touching me was immense, it made me very strong during the few big adversities of my life. I asked him: Why that doesn't come more often? Krishnamurti said: "What do you do with your energy?” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think it was in 1981 that a birthday party was organized for him (in May) by the people working at the four Foundations. Krishnamurti arrived and stood in silence for three or four minutes. Suddenly a gentleman with a Bostonian or perhaps English accent approached Krishnamurti and said: "I understand you are a Brahmin from India." Krishnamurti said: "I only have a passport from India." He soon left the party. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When the last talk of 1985 ended in Ojai in May I decided I wouldn't attend any more Krishnamurti talks. (Krishnamurti died in February 1986). It struck me, after his death, while I was listening to the last talk of him in England, held in 1985, that he said: "I will not use the word meditation anymore." 51

I had asked him to do that several times. One day we were at the orange grove in Arya Vihar, simply enjoying the scent of spring in silence. I said: I worry the schools are going to become elitist and that only the wealthy will be able to send their children to them. Krishnamurti said: "We have to work with what we have and we have to talk with the words we have." "I was born in a very poor home and some of my brothers died from tuberculosis or malnutrition. But look at me ! I'm doing very well, huh ?" I said: You were lucky you had teachers like Leadbeater who was even clairvoyant. Krishnamurti said: “Yes, I was very lucky. Leadbeater was temporarily clairvoyant and I was lucky that everything he said entered through my right ear and left through the left.” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We were sitting with David Bohm and Krishnamurti. I told Krishnamurti: From the conversations the three of us have had, one may infer that when one human mind is consummate in intelligence and love, that mind will inexorably influence (non-verbally) in an energetic (holokinetic) way, all human minds at the same time. Now if Krishnamurti is totally transformed or consummate, how come one doesn't see it more in people around us or even in the whole world? How come the sorrow, the brutality, the vulgarity, the insensitivity of people is not reduced ? Why don't we see the transformation more? At that point Krishnamurti told Dr. Bohm: "Prof. Bohm, you have been a co-worker of Albert Einstein but even so one can still talk to you without a mask. Krishnamurti smiled... How would you answer to that question? Why don't we see the change?

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Dr. Bohm, meditated for a few seconds and said: invisible."

"As a physicist I only know that 99% of all phenomena occurring in matter and energy are

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SEMINAR ON TIME, SPACE AND HUMAN PSYCHE Vasanta Vihar, Madras, India 17, 18, 19 January, 1990 (Personal notes by Ruben Feldman Gonzalez M.D. A.B.P.N.) Sunanda Patwardhan invited me to attend this seminar. Pupul Jayakar, author of "Krishnamurti-a biography," had described her as Krishnamurti's adoptive daughter. Sunanda knew of my personal contacts with Krishnamurti during the last ten years of his life and of a couple of books I had written in my mother-tongue (Spanish) about my attempts to apply the Teaching of Krishnamurti in daily life and psychotherapy (something that Krishnamurti himself had requested me to do to my own astonishment). I drove four hours from my home in El Centro (South California desert) to Los Angeles. I took an airplane in Los Angeles, California, and after a stopover in London and Kuwait I arrived at Madras. I had to move my watch thirteen and a half hours ahead. I had dinner in Vasanta Vihar at 6 A.M. California time. Something must be wrong with time as we know it. I walked at the Beach in Adyar where Krishnamurti had been discovered by Mr. Leadbeater. I slept at Leadbeater Chambers. I met participants coming from all over the world. I met the English gentleman whose daughter had been cured from leukemia, the sociologist from Benares who knew the meaning of "KARMA,” the prosperous physician who had dropped his practice to participate in a Krishnamurti school, the serious businessman from Bombay who discussed self-education, the physicist who directs one of the Krishnamurti schools in India, the computer expert who wants to see Krishnamurti’s teaching in Tamil language, the pseudo-master who claimed that identity is only a not dangerous game, the former policeman who left his job to work for the Krishnamurti Foundation and inherited Krishnamurti's clothes, the man from Bangalore who refused to answer questions, the monk from the North who was called "the most respectable,” the guru of the wealthy guru who died during my stay in India, as well as Pupul Jayakar and her daughter Rhadika, now the Principal of the Rishi Valley School.

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I also met an architect who speaks of sacredness in form. I remembered then my first true contact with art in a London Museum (The National Gallery on Trafalgar Square in 1978 while visiting Krishnamurti at Brockwood Park, when I joined the students on their Wednesday trip to London). Renoir made me feel in his own shoes (besides the river in the afternoon) even when he had painted the scene one hundred years ago. Total observation actualized Renoir in me. It was a looming of the unitary perception that Krishnamurti had taught me, the type of observation that makes us aware that all the living are one and even one with the dead. It was a joy to see the Seminar chaired on January 17th by SMT. Rhada Burnier, president of the Theosophical Society. This is a Society with three very sound basic principles, which I had imagined as rejecting Krishnamurti's teaching. Nevertheless, she discussed Krishnamurti's insight on time. We started to ask the basic questions. 1) Do we experience time or is it only a convenient unit of measure based on repeated sequences? 2)

Or is it that experience itself is time?

3) Is relative time only an insight into measuring time depending on the position and velocity of the observer? 4) I discovered that in the effortless awareness of all the senses at the same time, or at least two senses at the same time, for example sound and weight, time stops in the unitary perception of the body and awareness of space starts. The only action is unitary perception and the rest is only reaction (fear, anger, greed, sorrow, etc. ). 5) There is asymmetry between space and time, since the future and the past are not in space. This asymmetry hides behind language which gives us the illusion that time and space correlate, for example: How far is Rishi Valley from Madras?

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The answer may be five hours, instead of the correct answer: Three hundred Kilometers. So linguistically time/space seems to correlate but in consciousness time and space exclude each other. Whenever I stop being aware of the totality of space in unitary perception, then the idea of time emerges to consciousness and with that, conflict. 6) There is a difference between the eternal and not being aware of experience. The eternal is sacred timelessness right now. But this eternal moment is not the present which includes past and future and may make us aware that the future is now. This "present" may not exist other than in memory, which is only the past. In between sessions one could informally interact and digest the basic insight: When time stops, space begins. On Friday January the 19th I had tea with S. Rimpoche, Dr. Satish, Mr. Grohe, Prof. Daya Krishna and Shri Hamir Vissanji. It was a good chance to explore the meaning of words: Yoga vayragya yana Upaya

ekagrata niroda viveka Sunyata

I had the privilege to have breakfast and discuss the word upaya (stratagem) with Joy Mills (a very delicate soul from Ojai, California) in Adyar as well. With Pupul later I discussed the dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus (Chapter III in the Gospel of John) and the huge difference between "Being born from above (Anoten in Greek) which was what Jesus proposed and "Being born again" (Deuteron in Greek) which was what the learned Nicodemus stubbornly wanted to do. During this informal sessions with friends I learned that Saint Thomas, the apostle of Jesus, died in Madras. If Madras has a mind it is perhaps a skeptical mind. Jupiter and Orion presided over the midnight sky whenever I walked in Adyar with an inward noontime insomnia.

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Having dinner with a newly found American friend, invited by Pama and Sunanda Patwardhan was an indiscribable experience. Each one discussed his or her relationship to Krishnamurti. The relationship between man and woman was discussed. It was spiritual Rasamalai. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The second session on January 18th touched upon Religious (traditional) and scientific insights into time and psyche. Hinduism talks about an eternal self and an eternal time that Buddhism seems to disavow. 7) If all that exists has a cause, therefore it is not eternal. Existence occurs in time. The incompatibility of the concepts of the "eternal" and "cause" became apparent and was discussed in an open and intense dialogue. The ultimate cause or logos or ground is the eternal, and it occurs in space, but not in time. It is the Undivided Reality. 8) Krishnamurti has said that "thought stops listening.” Tradition, with so many words in so many languages, to describe the very same thing is more an unnecessary burden than a help to a serious man. If somebody says that the perceptual depth of Krishnamurti is the only freedom from the constrains of a conditioned mind and then one compares Krishnamurti with the Vastu Shastras, one inevitably goes back to the constrains of the conditioned mind. If I introduce the technology of the hologram and the concept of holokinesis by David Bohm or holographic memory by Karl Pribram or the morphogenetic fields by Rupert Sheldrake, do I facilitate or hinder the basic insight that when time stops space begins? In the center of consciousness, the totality of Cosmos is being recreated now. Its essence is a vibrating joy. If I say "sakala (all) sajurudeia (heart) sambada (dialogue)," and I can't translate that Indian expression into the Western word "communion,” am I facilitating dialogue between cultures or simply hindering it?

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Any tradition with its comparisons and thought will distort the relationship of man to man, of man to nature and cosmos, and of man to technology (including the lethal technology of war). Tradition has not stopped wars, it rather seems to make peace more difficult. Kashmir separatists were fighting with recently bought weapons quite close to our seminar, in both time and space. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The third session was on January 19th, 1990. Pupul and Achyut were the assigned moderators of dialogue. The topic was "Obstacles to the ending of time and coming upon vaster spaces and silence in consciousness.” Sunanda opened the dialogue with her usual friendly passion, privileged intelligence and exquisite English. English was not in most cases the mother tongue of the participants and our accents made sometimes for distortions and effort in communication. Very rarely we had to overcome solecisms because it was obvious the participants had been carefully chosen out of their dedication to excellence in the whole of life. We delved together into the first question: How do we experience consciousness? We have to be very aware of how we formulate our questions, because "consciousness" and "experience" are mutually exclusive. There may be consciousness of experience but I cannot experience consciousness. Consciousness is in space and it encompasses experience. Experience is in time. Duration and thought are only two different words to talk about the same "thing.” Fear, suspicion, greed, anger and sorrow have their existence in time and time, memory and experience only perpetuate them. Later we went into the differences between action and reaction. Action is in freedom and is creative. Reaction implies being and becoming and reduces behaviour to trivial activities. 58

In the words of a third participant the same thing was expressed differently: _Thought may describe or imagine the Buddha, Christ or Krishnamurti but thought-memory cannot be Buddha, Christ or Krishnamurti. _The very awareness of the difference between a) intellectual understanding and b) being a light to oneself, changes consciousness itself. Narayan added that even a partial understanding of the sentence "you are the world" changes our consciousness. Narayan was a 65 years old man who looked 35. The division between the collective and the individual consciousness disappears with the understanding of this statement: "You are the world..” This division (like any other) is the product of thought. Individual and collective consciousness is one. The individual unconscious is one with the collective unconscious. A molecular transmutation of the brain cell occurs (and is necessary for) during insight beyond time. This might be connected with the Christian teaching of the need for physical transfiguration prior (but not prior in time) to resurrection. After this moment a true change of "atmosphere" occurred when several participants challenged the very dynamics of our dialogue. Rajesh Dalal, a 36-year-old engineer whom Krishnamurti might have adopted as his grandson now lives at the Krishnamurti Foundation India with his wife. He followed an intervention of Prof. Harsh from Brockwood Park (England) stating something like this: "I don't know how to create space between us. There is not enough silence between us to allow a question to unfold.” I also saw that in the natural excitement of meeting with other serious investigators into the wholeness of life, answers or new questions emerged into the dialogue much before a question had been digested, criticized and fully explored.

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Prof. Harsh insisted: Are we sure when we say time is thought? Prof. Daya Krishna, from the University of Rajasthan in Jaipur who had traveled with his wife Francine 1500 Km. southwards to Madras for the Seminar asked: "How can we make time a friend?” In my words: how can we use rational knowledge sensibly and compassionately and then drop it instantly whenever knowledge becomes nonfunctional for the actual moment now? When Shri Pama Patwardhan intervened, I thought: we have to share personal insight and problems and relate those with the teaching of Krishnamurti. 1) One personal insight is that nationalism is a disgrace for mankind and it is our responsibility to state that fact if one sees it. 2) "I" is the center of security and so the cause of all insecurities of man (physical and psychological). It is obvious that there won't be space to explore a question between two or more people as long as one is eager to assert something or give an answer to the question immediately. Mr. Balasundaram asked: Why don't we question more instead of being so sure? He told the story of a rich man who offered one million rupees to anyone who could perform "the magician's trick" which is the ability to climb a rope to its end and then disappear at the end of the rope. "The magician's trick" is not complete until the magician disappears. A dialogue between two men ends when one man doesn't listen. THOUGHT STOPS THE LISTENING. Prof. T. P. Krishna (not Daya), a young and energetic Physicist who had been able to explain in very simple and orderly language the problems of time in relation to the first minute of the origin of the universe and the Big Bang, a man who is now the rector of the Krishnamurti Rajghat school; at Rajghat Fort in Benares (founded by Krishnamurti and Achyut Patwardhan) stated in his unique easy and clear-cut way: "The ultimate dialogue is the dialogue with oneself and one must listen.” 60

Sunanda completed Prof. Krishna's sentence as if both spoke with the same voice: "Does the observer disappear in listening?" I could hear (while listening) my own inner reactions, the spoken words in the dialogue and a different dialogue which emerged in the non verbal ambience among us: intense, energetic, vulnerable . . . deeply beautiful while hundreds of birds chirped on the branches of the same trees which had witnessed the very last public talk by Jiddu Krishnamurti. One could understand the different possibilities of interpretation of the expression "collective consciousness" at once. Pupul said: "Let's listen but not to what.” The essence of action is in that kind of listening. If I listen but "not to what" , then I won't only listen to my own background of experience, knowledge, tradition, overvalued words, fears, sorrow, anger and suspicion. Is there a listening in which the statement "I'm listening" does not emerge to consciousness? Does one then come upon a vast space and silence in consciousness? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I needed time in solitude and silence to look at these basic questions seriously. My jet-lag insomnia extended that time well beyond midnight each day. I walked in the forest at midnight and at dawn, whistled back to the many birds "in the same language" and some even seemed to answer. I walked in the beach by myself and also with an English friend. Once I met a local fisherman who simply wanted to walk by my side while he held a poetry book written in Tamil language, the only one he could speak. He wanted the pen he saw in my shirt pocket, because he "was going to write a letter to me.” All this was stated non verbally with his hands.

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He was obviously more interested in learning the poems by heart than in fishing. Then the time came to speak to the oldest living friend of Krishnamurti: Achyut Patwardhan. I followed the sound of the ocean to get to his white house along the two meters-wide path through the forest. To my left I had seen two buffalos resting in the water of the Adyar river, each with two birds on the head. Bird chirps, intense sunlight, ocean murmur and the forest breeze were one with his house, and Achyut lives there alone. The two doors of the house were wide open, one to the forest and the other to the ocean. I said "I don't want to impose myself" He said "I was eagerly waiting for this moment.” There he was, an eighty five years old Brahmin, who had fought peacefully with Mahatma Gandhi for the independence of India, who had been five years on the run from the British and also four years in British jails in India, now holding my hand like a loving grandfather and answering me that "if the socialism of the sannyasis (those who renounce the wordly ways) is not possible, then the socialism of the gangsters will prevail.” "Violence will never and in any place achieve anything,” he said with strong emphasis on his voice and energetically closing his eyes as if he was paying attention to the murmur of the ocean at his back, behind his house in Adyar. His father had told him and his older brother Rao that they had to understand the teaching of Krishnamurti. Achyut had become an Economist who wanted to end poverty in the world, and had no patience to follow leaders. He became a political leader himself, and after paying the price of persecution and jail, he refused the position of Prime Minister of India, which was offered to him insistently. Achyut knew and knows that the status quo is not viable and never more dangerous to the life of man on earth. Achyut founded (with Narain and Dev) the Socialist Party of India. He was impatient, felt the urgency of change and nevertheless paradoxically committed to nonviolence. 62

"I met Krishnamurti when I was a boy, we played together, Krishnamurti was ten years older than I and I looked up to him in the beginning,” Achyut said. But Achyut would not understand the teaching of Krishnamurti and chose to struggle for the independence of India for a long time. Only after the second world war Achyut met Krishnamurti again after ten years and was ready to see that the swastika and the hammer, symbols and words, were not going to pacify the world. Something much deeper was needed and Krishnamurti had the immeasurable depth Achyut was seeking. Achyut spent the whole 1948 with Krishnamurti in India. Krishnamurti had himself been restricted not to leave California nor talk to the public during the war (1940 to 1945). Spending time with Krishnamurti precipitated changes. In 1949 Achyut broke with politics of all kinds. The same thing happened to me after I met Krishnamurti in California in 1975, after seven of my friends had disappeared in Argentina, my place of birth. Krishnamurti was a torch on fire and the fire had touched Achyut. Krishnamurti's virility was not the original "vira" which means "war" in India. Mars, the God of war is also the God of virility in the west, but Krishnamurti's virility was a virility of absolute peace (much beyond courage, mere nonviolence and superficial political changes). Krishnamurti had gone through (and also proposed) a total mutation of the mind beyond time. Deep awareness was what would sustain man in the deepest historical crisis of man. Nehru and later Indira Ghandi had come to Krishnamurti to discuss right action in a world that was going wrong. Krishnamurti's answer was silence, but within the silence some words resonated: "Right action is only for the very silent mind, not for the muddled and chattering mind, as it is obvious . Right action is free of all motives: a) profit b) pleasure c) power d) prestige, etc." 63

Krishnamurti said: "The chaos of the world is the projection of these motives of the individual mind." "How do we exist?" Krishnamurti asked, "The moment you acknowledge you are being, you set the whole process of selfishness in operation .” I thought: Then identity and its defense emerge with nationalism, divisions, wars, legalized plunder and the sale of weapons, women and drugs. Krishnamurti had gone so far beyond identity that one day he asked a friend to touch his face to check whether it was still there. It may be hard to hear Krishnamurti say "The thing by which the West and the East are coming together is that both have lost the center of religion. Buddhists and Christians have both lost the core or essence from which great things took place.” I told Achyut of my intention to help to initiate a school in Latin America. Somebody in India had offered $ 100,000 dollars to create a school for rest, beauty, sensitivity, peace and truth. There is no need for more permissive or progressive centers of information to license children and produce facts. A new school has to begin with very young children before belief, T.V. and home/social brutality numbs them. Achyut took my left hand and drew a square on my palm. "First point the school has to be in a politically stable place, second point, you have to find five hundred acres of beautiful land, a beauty that calls to the sacred." It seemed that Achyut had it very clear in his mind or that his mind was quite clear. The flow of his words poured fluidly and calmly but with a huge wordless power. "You have to find four people who have been stabbed in their hearts by the teaching.” I said: "Can they be only three?" Achyut answered rapidly: "They can be three.” Perhaps a Foundation has to be established under the law to initiate and maintain the new school, to weave a network of support and to accept donations from those sensitive enough to understand that they cannot die in wealth while children are conventionally produced and educated to perpetuate human horror and brutality. We all need to ask more question and provide fewer answers.

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Are human beings the known seed of an unknown tree? Does unknown space begin when known time ends? Does time emerge to consciousness whenever unitary perception of space (and space in the body) stops?

THE BEGINNING

1) Rishi Valley School Rishi Valley 517352 Chittoor District Andhra Pradesh India

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Bal-Anand, "Akash Deep" 28 Dongersi Road Bombay - 400 006 India

2) Rajghat School Rajghat Fort, Varanasi 221001 (U.P.)

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The OakGroveSchool P.O. Box 1560 Ojai, California 93023 65

India

(USA)

3) The School -KFI-Madras Damodhar Gardens Besant Avenue, Adyar, Madras- 600 020 India

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Brockwood Park Bramdean, Nr. Alresford Hants, S024 OLQ England.

4) The Valley School “Haridvanam” 17th K.M. Kanakapura Road, Thatguni Post, Bangalore - 560 062 India

TRUE DIALOGUE (March 1991) Dialogue weaves its own pattern in the flow of insight, beyond the mere exchange of opinions and argumentation. True dialogue is the expression of unitary perception, beyond all forms of fragmentation and division. Dialogue, like music, needs silence in its nature and its flow. True dialogue sharpens intelligence and beyond mere thinking, there is alert perception of all the sounds that get to our ears and all feelings that flow within during the dialogue itself. 66

Impersonal insights emerge from such a dialogue with a quiet mind. No dialogue is possible without basic good will, freedom of communication and a spirit of friendship. Dialogue may be defined provisionally as: “One or more people gathering together in seriousness to ask one question and explore the simplest answer.” What is Unitary Perception and what is it not? If a few illumined or liberated men discovered something inexpressible in words all along man's history, we should be able to explore that liberation in dialogue, trying to re-discover the “unknown or inexpressible” in the crystallized words they have left for us. If we could ask a question while we feel it deeply, while we feel our weight and listen to all sounds at the same time, that question would have a different quality in itself. Higher and higher leaps into insight may only emerge from deeply felt questions. True dialogue is not debate, but leads to a sudden form of learning that we may call “insight.” The teacher is the deeply felt question itself. The question may emerge from oneself, from a child or from a historical sage, but what matters in terms of getting an insight from a question is simply whether it was deeply felt or not. Was the question ardent and passionate ? A passionate question unites the questioner with the collective consciousness of mankind independent of time. From that unitary perception of consciousness emerges insight. A dialogue in unitary perception is audible meditation. History claims that the quest for truth and insight can be carried out either through a sage or teacher, through a teaching or doctrine, or by oneself. If one is able to ask deeply felt questions with intelligence, then truth and insight will emerge in the serious dialogue with oneself and others equally serious.

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Teachers and teachings are of no value if there is no one left to ask deeply felt passionate and burning questions. In true listening to a question and the many answers to it, there is true learning. It doesn't matter where the many different answers come from. Learning occurs even in good natured teasing and witty joking, because bantering is one of the many answers a question may get. Good will in dialogue means listening to the sound of words without the word, which is only total unbiased listening in unitary, global perception of space without time. If you state what is happening you can't go beyond, but if you see and perceive “what is,” then you immediately go beyond. In unitary perception you go beyond. If you start a dialogue without being in unitary perception, in total unfocused attention, you only start a monologue. Monologues occur constantly both with oneself and with others whenever you stop listening to all sounds at the same time. If you ask someone else whether he or she is asking a deeply felt question, then you fall into monologue and away from true dialogue. You have to ask yourself which is your most burning question right now in order to start a true dialogue. You may believe you do not even have a burning question to ask. Having dialogues about dialogue is an intellectual sterile conversation. True dialogue starts with a burning question and a simple answer, even when the answer is silence. Silence is more meaningful than an intellectual exchange of opinions or a debate, if one is truly listening to silence. In true listening both the one who “knows” and the one who “doesn't know” disappear. In true dialogue we may ask wether we are in unitary perception and if we are not... why not ? If you are not at peace... why not ?

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In finding out “why not,” peace comes. But if you believe you are at comfortable peace and pose the question “why am I not at peace” ? then you are just an intellectual, only good for metaphysics or epistemology, but not good for true dialogue. True dialogue is based upon burning, raw, real questions, of a sincere person living a true life. “Why Am I not at peace” ? is a raw and burning question only for those who have been at peace at least once and know the meaning of not being at peace now. A true dialogue is not possible among those who know no peace. A true dialogue is not possible among those that are not interested in leading a true and whole life. Waiting for your turn to speak is not true dialogue. A great space, distance, silence between words and sentences are necessary for true dialogue. Silence then pervades true dialogue and is part of every sentence. Silence is not only at the end of a sentence. In every dialogue there has to be logic, rationality and continuity but also the insight, which is a deeper and sudden understanding. Insight emerges from intelligent and living silence. Sudden insight in true dialogue is not arbitrary rejection or whimsical acceptance of anything. Acceptance or rejection are intellectual forms of indulgence, or emotional resistance to truth, but not true dialogue. Any escape into irrelevant subjects may transform true dialogue in a desultory and superficial conversation and so both indulgence and resistance recur. A different form of intellectual indulgence, or laziness, is to answer from previous knowledge or previous analysis, formulas or conclusions. In true dialogue only present discovery (or seeing together right now) occurs, in this way insights and discoveries have tremendous vitality.

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A sage or a seer discovers fresh answers in a dialogue but a scholar simply lays down a story or a previously respected conclusion. A sage starts with a burning, real question, a scholar will tell you a story and the story may be real or imaginary, interesting or boring. A seer has no direction, he will avoid pitfalls, but a scholar will lead his followers in the way with a pre-conceived direction, even if it is into the pit itself. A clarification of meaning is only a theoretical fragment of an answer. A clarified theory or concept is only an opinion but not a true answer. Sometimes we have to get to the ultimate reasoning ,or paradox, to have a direct perception or insight. But insight is not the result of sequential thinking, nor the result of a very bright speech or definition. Insight is not a contingency of the logic of reason but rather of the logic of truth and the life for truth. Communication in true dialogue comes out without any effort. This absence of effort is the hallmark of the supreme energy evoked or liberated in unitary perception. In unitary perception discourse and dialogue are not separate. After the emergence of a burning and real question the difference between discourse and dialogue is never relevant. What matters is the burning question. A burning question will not be answered by Socrates , Buddha, Jesus or Krishnamurti, it will be answered only by the questioner himself in the very silence of the mind. A mind in the silence of unitary perception will not separate between the one who knows the answer to the burning question and the one who doesn't. The answer emerges only to the listening silence of the mind.

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THE LISTENING SILENCE OF THE MIND ENCOMPASSES EVERY WORD AND, OF COURSE, GOES BEYOND ALL WORDS, ARGUMENTS, OPINIONS, PREJUDICE, DEFINITIONS, IMAGES, SYMBOLS AND THOUGHT. No doubt will be necessary for a mind which is burning with the intensity of a really agonizing question. The burning question will make “the vessel of the mind open,free or empty, stable and whole” to be able to receive the answer from the unknown, no matter whether the listener likes the answer or not. The burning question cannot be taught, suggested, hinted or imposed, otherwise it would not be truly burning the questioner himself. Using a metaphor we can say the question is the ocean and the answer is the rain. Peace of mind is seeing the unity of water. Man doesn't live by bread alone and the need for the introduction of true dialogue in human life becomes more obvious every day. The main thing to give in true dialogue is listening. If any emotional reaction occurs in dialogue it has to be perceived fully and quickly before one starts to talk. Talking from an emotional reaction is the end of true dialogue. When one listens fully, there is vast silence and the body is very quiet. So a still mind and a still body are the hallmark of true dialogue. Listening fully implies being aware of the depth of sound when one listens to the sound within sound. Can we listen to a burning question in total stillness without contriving a response, but simply energetically listen like a seed bursting with life under the ground ? If you only think about the question you may not be receiving it, you may not be listening to it. Awareness of all the physical, emotional or intellectual responses to a question is part of the answer to the question. Total awareness of the question and the many responses to it, is necessary before any answer is given in true dialogue.

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See what happens if we ask ourselves: Are we afraid to love without defense? Are we afraid of being alone? Am I related to anyone? Am I at peace? Do I think a lot about money and prestige and respect? Am I afraid of acting? Is mankind degenerating? Am I using philosophical or superficial questions to avoid true dialogue and my own real regeneration in true action, which is unitary perception? Do I have any burning question to start dialogue? INTRODUCTION TO KRISHNAMURTI'S TEACHING Jiddu Krishnamurti is the most important person of the 20th Century if not the most important in the past twenty centuries. He discusses the essential core of all religious teachings given to mankind. He does that in an unprecedented way, using a clear, non-technical and simple language in a fresh and actualized form. To understand Krishnamurti one has to be ready to learn and willing to unlearn. Krishnamurti's words have to be understood only in the context of his whole teaching. He sometimes uses words depriving them of their accepted, conventional meaning. He can also use the same word with a different contextual meaning in different occasions.

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Krishnamurti uses a new form of expression to awaken a new form of understanding. It is an understanding that moves from fact to fact, radically denying every form of conditioning, tradition, ideology, belief, romanticism, sentimentality or predilection. In the spiritual dimension of life the conclusions of knowledge don't count. You may know how to cite and recite all the verses of the Gospel, the Koran and the Gita but you may still not be able to live with a silent mind. A silent mind is a very energetic mind in constant regeneration, a mind that is able to relate, to think, feel and act without prejudice, without conflict and without effort. When intellect "enters" the spiritual dimension (if such a thing was possible), it encounters the paradox. Without transcending paradox, which is the last refuge of intellect, the mind can't live in the spiritual dimension, which moves in the most vibrant and energetic silence. "Life starts after death" is one of those intellectual paradoxes which maintain the mind at the threshold of the spiritual dimension. Without dropping words and conclusions of intellect, the mind can't transcend the threshold. Without pure listening of all sound, without words, there is no access to the second silence or spiritual silence of which no description is possible. The sacred dimension is called "secret" or "occult" by those who prefer a comfortable, mediocre and superficial life. The Christian word "Metanoia" (Greek) means originally "to go beyond knowledge and beyond thinking" but was mistranslated as "repentance" which in itself means "to be sorry again" (for past misdeeds). The mistranslation of the word "Metanoia," uncorrected for 500 years, with its multiple implications, may be considered both a cultural catastrophe and also a true break with original religious culture. Going from fact to fact the mind needs no effort, creates no distortions and starts no conflict whatsoever. Going from fact to fact the mind is so clear that it needs to follow nobody nor conform to any Gita, Bible, Koran or Vedas. Freedom for Krishnamurti starts when one dispenses from within with all crutches, with all help, with all shelter and with all authority. Freedom is nevertheless compatible with following the law of a country.

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People talk about "spiritual liberation" but it is not "Ruben who obtains liberation." Rather, only when Ruben disappears as an ego, life is liberated in Ruben. If Ruben wants to express himself, he won't allow the expression of life in himself. Life alone benefits in liberation and also everyone who is not afraid of the expression of life. This is the meaning of the paradoxical sentence: "Life starts after death.” This is quite related with a frequent misinterpretation of Krishnamurti's teaching: he used to repeat "know yourself" and "be a light to yourself.” But interpreting Krishnamurti's "know yourself" as "self-knowledge" may sound very philosophical but it is a big mistake. Krishnamurti emphasized that there is thought but not a thinker, so there could hardly be anything static as "a self" to know. Obviously he meant "discover by yourself and follow no one" whenever he said "know yourself.” We have to discover by ourselves how we need respect all the time and how the need for respect is related to everything in our life: jealousy, fear of emptiness, fear of loneliness, greed, a complex and stifling lifestyle, blind competition, cruelty and brutality, the building of personal, corporate or national empires, the invention of enemies and the ultimate incoherence of "making wars to achieve peace". Repeating the words of another makes the mind dull, insensitive, and ultimately boring, cruel and brutal (same as what our minds have become !). Such a mind is bringing into the world more and more chaos as we see around us in all and every one of the activities of men and women. Present planetary society is creating very chaotic and confused men and women. Many of those confused men and women are teaching in school and universities, contributing to the maintenance of the collective status quo, which is the criminal and meaningless society we know. Krishnamurti teaches that the fact has significance and that only the fact is significant. The fact that we are greedy and envious, jealous, fearful and angry is the significant thing, not the idea that we should be non-greedy, not fearful and not angry. If a terrorist makes you angry don't dwell on the terrorist, rather perceive anger at the time it happens and not later. Krishnamurti says "to look at the fact, you have to see the fact completely and not introduce a contradictory idea.” If you see you are afraid, see the fear completely without the word fear, because if you conclude that you shouldn't be afraid, you stop seeing your fear. If you stop seeing your fear, you don't see it completely and if you don't see it completely, you are not free from fear. Fear is built in thought and thought creates both fear and the thinker.

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If Krishnamurti says that there is only thought and no thinker and one responds by stating that Krishnamurti is "vague,” it only shows one's resistance to learn and to unlearn. Only a man that is completely silent and quiet is completely alive and sensitive. Only a silent mind can see and listen well. Krishnamurti goes even further: "It is only such a mind that can perceive that which is immeasurable.” The perception of "the immeasurable" depends on remaining open for the new. We don't even see the fact that relationships are not static. Looking at any relationship from a fixed point of view makes the relationship dull or uncreative. Habits and addictions of any kind dull sensitivity and our life is full of habits and addictions. Many persons who are slaves to habit incoherently talk about creativity and in the name of being creative precisely create a lot of havoc and confusion in their lives. Krishnamurti goes deeper saying that there is no creativity unless the mind lives in creation, but only the silent mind is able to live in creation. Seeking creativity is in itself a non-creative act. Those who are afraid of discovery and of dropping everything they know, like to call Krishnamurti a guru or a philosopher, but he is neither. Mixing Krishnamurti with mythology and religious legends is another very common and immature way to invalidate Krishnamurti, almost as bad as base personal gossip. During the second world war Krishnamurti was called a "Nazi" by the communists and a "communist" by the Nazis, since both had vested interests and both wanted to invalidate Krishnamurti. But both missed the fact that Krishnamurti went far beyond ideology and belief. His teaching is both universal and timeless, it is meant for all men, no matter what their situation may be. Between 1920 and 1940 he was introduced to the public as a World Teacher of the same magnitude as Jesus-Christ or Buddha Gautama, a new young Teacher or seer who only spoke a more updated and reliable language. This "soteriologic language" could be heard at last first hand, without any distortion from followers, churches, translators and sacred books. He spoke simple, everyday, nontechnical English! When I first met Krishnamurti in March of 1975, I tried to discuss the translation of his books into Spanish. He simply told me: "tell them to learn English!" 75

Since 1929 Krishnamurti was an independent teacher, who never belonged to any organization nor wanted to found one. He was, in that sense, alone through his death, aloneness he maintained with uncompromising integrity. He defined "aloneness" as the ability he had to feel one with all men and women: all-one-ness. He avoided also all kinds of propaganda for himself and his teaching. He said the best way to spread the teaching was to live by it, with a very silent and quiet mind, constantly open to the sacredness of each moment. Such a mind would completely see the rage generated by an insult, the envy generated by a compliment to a perceived rival and the pride evoked by flattery. Once rage, envy and pride are completely "seen" in unitary perception or choiceless awareness, they would instantly disappear without a trace and the mind would naturally go back to the bliss of silent peace. Living with that silent mind was what he dared to call "meditation", knowing very well that when he used this word it carried an altogether different and non-traditional, non-technical meaning. Krishnamurti didn't read books, so his teaching came directly from his own authentic discovery and expressed itself from his own original, pristine, uncontaminated intelligence. He would ask his friends: “Are you aware that you are dull?” He would shock a lady by asking: "Have you discovered your husband already?" We were having lunch one day (June-1978) in Brockwood Park, and somebody asked: "Tell us about reincarnation.” Krishnamurti said: "What is it that continues?"... before quietly continuing eating his salad. That's all he said! I found what he meant by it only much later, while I was reading his collected works. He would give new meaning to old words. He would define "discipline" as the ability to learn and to unlearn. 76

He would provide tremendous depth to the shortest sentence, using it at the right time. He said once: "People need to be awakened, not instructed.” He could be very harsh with me, but at the same time I could feel the love in his intense, undescribable eyes when he said the words. I invited him for a walk once, in Ojai, California. He said: "Let's walk -as long as we walk in silence-" After walking for an hour he said only this: "Dr. Gonzalez, will you continue being one of the many or will you start being one of the few?” He gave me non-verbal clues for me not to answer. It was clearly implied that this was one of those questions you have to keep alive for the rest of your life. Being with him for an hour every time we met made me feel in bliss, in a quasi levitated, peaceful and joyful state. On one of those occasions I told him: "when I am with you I feel like a condor.” He instantly replied: "For how long do you want to be infected?" He meant one has to find the way to be in bliss by oneself! The kind of discovery Krishnamurti had made (and that he invited all to make themselves) gave him the energy and the wisdom to persuade or shock without too many words and without too much effort. In 1977 he said: "Transformation is not from this to that but the ending of this" He had obviously undergone some supreme transformation which most men refuse to go through. He used to repeat in different ways: "My teaching is neither mystic nor occult for I hold that both are part of man's limitation upon truth. Those who are bound by what they know will have difficulty in understanding the ever changing truth.”

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A friend of mine, who had recently divorced from his wife, went to see Krishnamurti in despair. He complained that his wife didn't love him anymore. Krishnamurti told him: "if you love you don't need anybody's love. You need her love because there is no love within yourself." The loving silent mind doesn't need to express itself to "fulfil,” to "impress,” to "achieve,” to "succeed.” To "be useful" or to "be remembered.” Its expression is spontaneous and without goal. The scent of a flower is not considered to be "an expression" of the flower, simply because the scent is spontaneous and without a goal. A good scent is part of a good flower. The good and silent mind doesn't need to express itself. Pursuing a goal has to be intelligently balanced with silence, leisure, unsought relaxation and being fully alert and alive in choiceless awareness or passive attention. Spiritual "training" (and "technics") is only one of the many ways by which we escape from being fully alert and alive right now. Compulsively watching T.V. or playing with a computer may fulfil the same function: to escape from life. Right now is the beginning of a whole new life in which we constantly, every day and all day long, are attempting, without any effort, to live with death in futureless silence. We have to be willing and ready to change our plans with each change in the present. If we live this way, every moment is a new beginning, or a life without beginning, and everything that has to be done can be done without effort and without any conflict. "In such a life" Krishnamurti says: “The teacher is not important, he is only a telephone, throw him overboard and just learn to listen.” The only one able to lead man beyond himself is man himself. Krishnamurti said: "For as long as the smallest part of the brain remains unconscious, it will project words and symbols which will only create the illusion of communion with something higher.” Later he repeatedly said: " The word God is not God.” The reality of God can only be perceived in deep and alert silence.

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KRISHNAMURTI FOUNDATION P.O. Box 1560 - Ojai, California 93023 - USA Tel.(805)646-2726 Fax: (805)646-6674 1.- VIDEOS AND AUDIO-CASSETTES AVAILABLE 2.- BOOKS: Krishnamurti (a Biography) Pupul Jayakar Krishnamurti's Notebook Beginnings of Learning The Impossible Question The Urgency of Change The Only Revolution Education and the Significance of Life The Awakening of Intelligence Krishnamurti on Education The Urgency of Change The Only Revolution Freedom from the Known Beyond Violence You are the World The Flight of the Eagle Think on these Things The First and Last Freedom Life Ahead Talks and Dialogues (Saanen-1967) Saanen talks 1968 Talks in Europe 1968

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Commentaries on Living Series I II and III Talks in Saanen 1974 Ending of Time (Dialogues with physicist David Bohm) The Collected Works of Krishnamurti (1933-76) - 17 Volumes. BOOKLETS: Conversations Meditations Letters to the Schools (2 Volumes) Inward Flowering

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